Comments on: The problem with the low oxalate diet http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/ Exploring the genetic links between Asperger's syndrome, fibromyalgia, hypoglycaemia, obesity, back pain, asthma and 'allergies', and how to improve them with a scientific diet you have never heard of. Fri, 02 Jul 2010 15:57:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: The problem with the low oxalate group « Plant Poisons and Rotten Stuff - The Blog http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-632 The problem with the low oxalate group « Plant Poisons and Rotten Stuff - The Blog Sat, 06 Dec 2008 03:04:01 +0000 http://emmadavies.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-632 [...] wrote a criticism of the low oxalate diet some time ago. Looking back on the article now, I can see I spent a lot of time waffling, ranted [...] [...] wrote a criticism of the low oxalate diet some time ago. Looking back on the article now, I can see I spent a lot of time waffling, ranted [...]

]]> By: Alien Robot Girl http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-631 Alien Robot Girl Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:57:42 +0000 http://emmadavies.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-631 Sally, > This chart seems to indicate that your statement is simply not true. Foods containing glutamates and salicylics have varying amounts from their oxalate content. It does not show much correlation with oxalate content. I am not sure why you are putting words into my mouth here. I have never claimed that salicylate/amine and oxalate levels correlate. That would be stupid. However, visit the LOD group, and what you read are people complaining about reactions to chocolate, leafy greens, nuts, dried fruits... you name it, all the foods that are absolutely the worst for failsafers. Hardly any of these people have even heard of the failsafe diet. They all have mysterious symptoms they blame on "dumping", which are not actually dumping, but food chemical infractions. > I have seen only one or two responses indicating that it has anything to do with how the foods are grown. Perhaps you should research this further. Oxalate content varies widely depending on how wet or dry the weather is, the mineral content of the soil, how the plants are fertilised... > “Oxalates allegedly “cause” the same set of symptoms that people experience to salicylates, amines and glutamates, yet diets low in these chemicals are well documented to resolve those symptoms.” > This statement is a bit ambiguous. Could you cite references which would indicate that the LOD site promotes such a claim? I am not sure what is ambiguous about it. Susan from the list very recently claimed that *my own* symptoms: asperger's/ADD/brainfog/fibromyalgia/cyclothymia/hypoglycaemia/back & neck pain/ear ache/heart palpitations/insomnia/allergies/asthma/eczema made me a candidate for the low oxalate diet. How ironic. All of my symptoms resolve entirely on the FAILSAFE diet, because they are caused by salicylates, amines and glutamates! I have even tested this with pure, oxalate free chemical sources - like aspirin! Sally,

> This chart seems to indicate that your statement is simply not true. Foods containing glutamates and salicylics have varying amounts from their oxalate content. It does not show much correlation with oxalate content.

I am not sure why you are putting words into my mouth here. I have never claimed that salicylate/amine and oxalate levels correlate. That would be stupid.

However, visit the LOD group, and what you read are people complaining about reactions to chocolate, leafy greens, nuts, dried fruits… you name it, all the foods that are absolutely the worst for failsafers. Hardly any of these people have even heard of the failsafe diet. They all have mysterious symptoms they blame on “dumping”, which are not actually dumping, but food chemical infractions.

> I have seen only one or two responses indicating that it has anything to do with how the foods are grown.

Perhaps you should research this further. Oxalate content varies widely depending on how wet or dry the weather is, the mineral content of the soil, how the plants are fertilised…

> “Oxalates allegedly “cause” the same set of symptoms that people experience to salicylates, amines and glutamates, yet diets low in these chemicals are well documented to resolve those symptoms.”

> This statement is a bit ambiguous. Could you cite references which would indicate that the LOD site promotes such a claim?

I am not sure what is ambiguous about it. Susan from the list very recently claimed that *my own* symptoms: asperger’s/ADD/brainfog/fibromyalgia/cyclothymia/hypoglycaemia/back & neck pain/ear ache/heart palpitations/insomnia/allergies/asthma/eczema made me a candidate for the low oxalate diet. How ironic.

All of my symptoms resolve entirely on the FAILSAFE diet, because they are caused by salicylates, amines and glutamates! I have even tested this with pure, oxalate free chemical sources – like aspirin!

]]> By: sally888 http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-628 sally888 Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:09:17 +0000 http://emmadavies.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-628 Your statement "Oxalates are in all of the same foods that are high in salicylates, amines and glutamates with a very few exceptions." http://lowoxalate.info/food_lists/alph_oxstat_chart.pdf This chart seems to indicate that your statement is simply not true. Foods containing glutamates and salicylics have varying amounts from their oxalate content. It does not show much correlation with oxalate content. The table seems to be a mere listing of information. I have been on this list for several weeks and have seen nothing to indicate that oxalate containing foods are the same as GFCF or salicylic containing foods. Your statement: "Oxalate content of food varies wildly depending on how it is grown, so none of the charts are reliable and accurate and many contradict." It is true that the lists vary for a few foods and several people have questioned this. But I have seen only one or two responses indicating that it has anything to do with how the foods are grown. Your statement: "Oxalates allegedly “cause” the same set of symptoms that people experience to salicylates, amines and glutamates, yet diets low in these chemicals are well documented to resolve those symptoms." This statement is a bit ambiguous. Could you cite references which would indicate that the LOD site promotes such a claim? Your statement
“Oxalates are in all of the same foods that are high in salicylates, amines and glutamates with a very few exceptions.”

http://lowoxalate.info/food_lists/alph_oxstat_chart.pdf
This chart seems to indicate that your statement is simply not true. Foods containing glutamates and salicylics have varying amounts from their oxalate content. It does not show much correlation with oxalate content. The table seems to be a mere listing of information. I have been on this list for several weeks and have seen nothing to indicate that oxalate containing foods are the same as GFCF or salicylic containing foods.

Your statement:

“Oxalate content of food varies wildly depending on how it is grown, so none of the charts are reliable and accurate and many contradict.”

It is true that the lists vary for a few foods and several people have questioned this. But I have seen only one or two responses indicating that it has anything to do with how the foods are grown.

Your statement:

“Oxalates allegedly “cause” the same set of symptoms that people experience to salicylates, amines and glutamates, yet diets low in these chemicals are well documented to resolve those symptoms.”

This statement is a bit ambiguous. Could you cite references which would indicate that the LOD site promotes such a claim?

]]> By: Alien Robot Girl http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-363 Alien Robot Girl Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:17:00 +0000 http://emmadavies.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-363 Hi Anonymous, Thinking logically? An ironic comment coming from someone who can't follow the premise of an argument. Very few people who do a low oxalate diet actually test the urine for oxalates. Not that it would be relevant if they did, since testing for high oxalates in the urine means you are actually getting rid of oxalates instead of retaining them, which is exactly what happens when you go on a low oxalate diet. People who have more to worry about are those who have an oxalate problem but actually test LOW oxalate. So much for 'thinking logically'. Try not to be so rude in future. Hi Anonymous,
Thinking logically? An ironic comment coming from someone who can’t follow the premise of an argument. Very few people who do a low oxalate diet actually test the urine for oxalates. Not that it would be relevant if they did, since testing for high oxalates in the urine means you are actually getting rid of oxalates instead of retaining them, which is exactly what happens when you go on a low oxalate diet. People who have more to worry about are those who have an oxalate problem but actually test LOW oxalate. So much for ‘thinking logically’. Try not to be so rude in future.

]]> By: Anonymous http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-352 Anonymous Sat, 26 Jan 2008 21:36:00 +0000 http://emmadavies.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-352 You missed the most obvious reason people do the low oxalates diet – they actually tested high for oxalates! <br/><br/>Seems pretty cut & dry, but them you actually need to be able to think logically to understand this part … You missed the most obvious reason people do the low oxalates diet – they actually tested high for oxalates!

Seems pretty cut & dry, but them you actually need to be able to think logically to understand this part …

]]> By: Alien Robot Girl http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-257 Alien Robot Girl Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:05:00 +0000 http://emmadavies.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-257 Then how come I've come across so many people who tried Feingold, it didn't work, so they gave up?The educational materials on their website are absolutely bereft of information about amines and glutamates. The only advice I can find on the Feingold website, in their international membership section, listed with lower priority than information about casein and gluten -- is a tiny nod to failsafe that "if your child is very aggressive - he may have a problem with amines such as Tyramine."This does not in my view constitute a fair and balanced understanding of the actual situation. Amine intolerance is far more widespread than the Feingold organisation portrays and with much wider ranging symptoms. Then how come I’ve come across so many people who tried Feingold, it didn’t work, so they gave up?The educational materials on their website are absolutely bereft of information about amines and glutamates. The only advice I can find on the Feingold website, in their international membership section, listed with lower priority than information about casein and gluten — is a tiny nod to failsafe that “if your child is very aggressive – he may have a problem with amines such as Tyramine.”This does not in my view constitute a fair and balanced understanding of the actual situation. Amine intolerance is far more widespread than the Feingold organisation portrays and with much wider ranging symptoms.

]]> By: Snicker http://blog.plantpoisonsandrottenstuff.info/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-256 Snicker Wed, 29 Aug 2007 03:27:00 +0000 http://emmadavies.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/the-problem-with-the-low-oxalate-diet/#comment-256 The Feingold Program is not outdated--it is considered the first step for many and the answer for others. <br/><br/>Furthermore, the Feingold Association does not keep quiet about the existence of Failsafe. The Feingold Program is not outdated–it is considered the first step for many and the answer for others.

Furthermore, the Feingold Association does not keep quiet about the existence of Failsafe.

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